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Forum:Allied Arsenal
The list of stuff of the Allies in mod Red Alert: Zero. Content Infantry Marine *Full Desigantion: Allied Marine Corps *Role: General infantry, building infiltration and clearing *Cost: 200 *Strong against: All Infantry, light vehicles, garrisoned structures *Weak against: Vehicles, aircraft *Abilities: Clear garrison (rushing the structure) *Secondary Ability: Grenade Launcher - Launches a HE grenade on the tesignated area, giving great damage to infantry and vehicles, long reload time *Heroic Upgrade: Future Warrior - Marine is equipped with XM8A2 assault rifle and visor for greater fire range and new Kevlar vest for reduction of dealed splash damage *Primary Weaponry: XM8 Assault Rifle *Secondary Weaponry: M203 grenade launcher Hazza-the-Fox 00:51, November 4, 2011 (UTC) The Marine- exactly as the name suggests is a specialist infantry corps whose main skill is forcing entry to garrisoned structures, clearing out the occupants and taking control instead. To do this initially requires a Blackhawk to fly over the structure and drop them off on the roof (if the structure has a roof?). Whether or not they would have an upgrade to also be able to ride a Blackhawk and take an enemy ship (or sink it), or to be able to enter a garrisoned enemy structure on foot through the front door, is also up for discussion. Otherwise, the main point about this infantry unit vs the conscript is that it somewhat maintains the GI/Conscript relationship of Red Alert 2, but not as severe (heavy machinegun)- but more closer to the Generals Ranger vs Rebel/Red Guard relationship; Along with being able to clear structures, he fires at longer range, and has more armor (a good balance, as AKs though less suitable for long ranges due to the kick, are otherwise quite equal- and represents the clear disadvantage that Yuri doesn't bother armoring his Conscripts properly). 10:31, November 4, 2011 (UTC): He is perfect, a balance to Conscript! :) But the secondary... I am not sure about the Blackhawk deployment, because there is a prolem with "one secodnary only" problem. Blackhawk will not be able to make that only Marines inside can enter the building by ropes. For a standart way to enter the structures, thats possible. In RA3 Japanese Imperial Warriors, when switched to use their katanas, were able to rush intot he structure and kill the occupants. Allied Peacekeepers are also capable of this by using their Riot Shields, but I never found out how its done, will must try it. So, I would give it to them as their normal abiltiy (passive) that they can enter structures to kill the enemy occupants. But than, the question is, what might be the normal Secodnary? For secondary weapon, maybe it might be the Secondary ability, to launch a greande from a grenade launcher added to the XM8 (like M203 on M16/M4). But what might be the "payload" of the greande? High explosive, shrappnel (thought might be prohibited by Allies), or stun (flashbang)? Or incinerate? You will select where to fire it, and the marine(s) will launch one grenade (each) into the area. But the heroic... I think that it might be an improved version of XM8 (like XM8A2) or new weapon (like Israeli Tavor link), which is stronger, but retains the abiltiies of previosu weapon. Or maybe incendiary ammunition, or armour-piercing. (now Mass Effect talks out of me) Hazza-the-Fox 09:42, November 5, 2011 (UTC) I agree! The GIs were overpowered, and I wanted something that was a good rival to the conscript, but better mostly in stats and abilities. Excellent- standard building-entry it is! That would solve that problem; I think a single shot grenade launcher would be a good call; probably a slightly bigger version of what the Centurion is wielding- or a weak anti-tank shot with some mild splash. Possibly it could be the same 'payload' ammo as the fighter jets and helicopters use (the Marines have to stock up at the Barracks- or possibly a converted supply truck- after they fire one shot- and are stuck with standard rifles) I think a heroic upgrade to the rifle is a definite- stronger shots is a clear must for it- possibly some other stats to enhance the Marine too! VolteMetalic 19:24, November 5, 2011 (UTC): Ok :) So normal garrison-entering! This would be really problematic. I think that normal one-shot HE grenade might work :) Or shrapnel grenade. Ok, so advanced weapon, or new ammunition (incendiary)? What about giving him some kind of "visor", to make him more like "Future Warrior", an US Army project now in existence/development. The "visor" (think of ARC Clone Trooper in Star Wars) might increase a fire range, or accuracy. Or maybe a new kind of armor. Hazza-the-Fox 03:58, November 7, 2011 (UTC) (I was about to answe this but my power cut out) Yep, I think the grenade should be a single-shot splash, but do some damage against vehicles (not much though). And eithe way, requires the Marine to return to the barracks to re-arm, exactly like a jet returns to the airfield for more bombs (adds a nice hit-and-run); obviously, the grenades would be good vs buildings. Hmm, all those ideas sound good and fit into the new Allied theme (esp incendiaries)- I'll have to think of which one(s) would be the best. VolteMetalic 08:24, November 7, 2011 (UTC): Returning to barracks is nonsense. Players will hate to return for example from an operation close to enemy base the whole map back to barracks. But to make it more even, it might be made it takes a lot of time to reload, but how to explain this? Ok, its your decision :) But what might be the name of the secondary to launch grenades? Simply "Launch Grenade"? Hazza-the-Fox 11:12, November 7, 2011 (UTC) In that case, probably a slow reload (and the excuse is they simply got re-stocked on the battlefield off screen- or have a small supply and are rationing their shots). And I guess maybe M203 Grenade? I dunno... VolteMetalic 13:00, November 7, 2011 (UTC): Or that the luanhcing mechanisms quickly overheats, needing some time to cool down before launching another grenade? Hazza-the-Fox 20:42, November 7, 2011 (UTC)That would work! BTW, nice job adding the pics! VolteMetalic 21:58, November 7, 2011 (UTC): No problem, I had two reasons for it. First, to add ilustrations, and second, make a "HUGE" note on where another section starts :D For Heroic, so what exactly it will be? New XM8A2 rifle, or a new one? And the upgrades of armor or addition of visor also counts there, along with the assault rifle? Hazza-the-Fox 01:16, November 8, 2011 (UTC) Good call! And I think yes- a sharpshooter XM8A2 with more powerful rounds- but most importantly much longer range (nowhere near that of a sniper- but considerably further than a normal Marine could shoot). And a Visor would be pretty cool- perhaps implying that he takes reduced damage from splash (but not direct hits)? That would help bump general infantry back up if the enemy are using splash weapons... VolteMetalic 08:19, November 8, 2011 (UTC): Done so. I named the Heroic "Future Warrior", as listing three things is too long :P Oh, and you should modify a concept art for Marine, with the grenade launcher :) Hazza-the-Fox 12:17, November 8, 2011 (UTC) Sounds good; and good point, I will probably need to get around to it! (perhaps a before/after showcase) VolteMetalic 19:15, November 8, 2011 (UTC): Yeah, and you should also make an image of the heroic Marine. Guardian GI *Full Desigantion: "Guardian" General Infantry Anti-Armor Specialist *Role: Support, anti-armor, forward-defense *Cost: 400 *Strong against: vehicles *Weak against: general infantry (rifle) units, heavy infantry, aircraft *Secondary Ability: deploy missile launcher *Heroic Upgrade: unknown (upgrade to missiles?) *Primary Weaponry: Deployable Anti-Tank missile launcher *Secondary Weaponry: 45 caliber pistol Hazza-the-Fox 00:53, November 9, 2011 (UTC) The Guardian works in a similar manner as the old one; although he is no longer uncrushable (he doesn't set up barricades, he merely pulls out the missile launcher), cannot shoot air targets and fires at a slower rate. His missiles travel faster than the old version, and as tanks cost much more than in RA2, he would be a far greater threat to tanks than before (the missiles travel in a low arc). I am not yet certain whether the Guardian should deploy a stationary tripod-supported missile launcher, or a non-stationary missile launcher that he can walk around with (albiet very, very slowly). Or, whether the missiles are guided or not (creating a tactical loophole for fast vehicles like Terror Drones to slip through). Note that either of these can be remedied as a Heroic upgrade. Note that the missile launcher is highly effective against vehicles, does fairly good damage to any infantry it hits (though ultimately is too slow-firing to be worth using, and does less damage-per-second than rifle infantry). The pistol is far shorter-ranged than the conscript's AK-47, and does less damage per shot, but fires at a consistent rate (as opposed to short bursts); ultimately it only lends a bit of help to the GIs if there are a lot of enemy infantry around. Note that the pistols are not capable of piercing armor, so Tesla Troopers, Terror Drones, are invincible against it and cannot be targeted by it. As such, heavy infantry units are a clear achiles heel to Guardians, as the missiles are only as effective against them as against any other infantry, and the pistol doesn't harm them at all. VolteMetalic 19:15, November 8, 2011 (UTC):I added it, but didnt add anything. I will leave that up to you :) Jager Sniper Commando *Full Desigantion: Multinational Special Forces "Jäger Corps" Sniper Commando *Role: Infiltration, sabotage, assassination, sniping support *Cost: 800 *Strong against: Infantry, structures *Weak against: Vehicles, aircraft, heavy armor *Abilities: Amphibious, Radar-evasive *Secondary Ability: Switch Sniper mode/Fire mode - In sniper mode uses sniper rifle, crawles, higher range, cant swim and plant C4. In fire mode uses P90, fast movement, short range. *Heroic Upgrade: M107 Barret anti-material rifle - Higher anti-armor damage *Primary Weaponry: 50.cal sniper rifle *Secondary Weaponry: P90 submachine gun, C4 charges Hazza-the-Fox 00:36, November 4, 2011 (UTC)Ok, this unit is sort of a central-north-east European-based corps that is based on pooled allied resources recruiting experts from Europe and North America. To clarify how this unit works, there are a few points; Firstly he is a high-powered infantry unit replacing the SEAL type commandos of CNC games. With regular armor, is radar-proof, can benefit from Alarm-Bypass training, and is amphibious- he toggles between two attack modes. In 'regular' undeployed mode, he wields a P90 submachinegun and C4 explosive charges, and can move around very quickly, and is able to swim. He cannot shoot while in water, but he is hidden below the surface and hard to detect (a bit of balance- plus its a bit strange having a guy fire shots while bobbing in the ocean). But he can plant C4 both on land and in water (structures and ships alike). The P90 itself differentiates from the SEAL gun by being a lot weaker. It does much more damage against light-infantry targets than the Marine's XM8 rifle, and has a slightly higher rate of fire, but it has much shorter range- forcing the Jager to either use cover (structures) to get close to the enemy, or must take fire to close the gap before retaliating. At close range he should be able to kill a few Marines or Conscripts single-handedly. When deployed, he has a deployable sniper rifle. This weapon instantly kills any light infantry unit, and does severe damage to armored infantry such as Tesla Troopers, Desolators, Centurions and Chrono Legionairres. Unlike other deployable weapons, the Jager is still able to walk around- only very slowly. Also, while the sniper rifle is out, he cannot swim (obviously, as far as peering down a scope is concerned), and also cannot use C4 (a safety reason- anything that prevents instructing the sniper to walk away from his hiding spot is useful- as accidentally clicking a structure and having him slowly stroll down could be annoying- plus it helps prevent making it too easy to exploit the rifle too much). Switching between sniper and P90 mode takes a few seconds (for balance reasons so people don't just switch at lightning speed between them when infantry approach). Whether his sniper rifle can damage vehicles or not is up for discussion- but a distinct advantage, either immediately or afforded at veteran level- is that enemy infantry can no longer hide behind structures or walls and be safe from his rifle's scopes. Also, he can enter buildings and shoot from them with his sniper rifle (same deal for the Battle Fortress). 10:31, November 4, 2011 (UTC): I see. I fixed it a little, so "amphibious" and "radar-evasive" are his passive abillities. But the heroic... I think that it mgiht be a new sniper rifle, anti-material one, maybe something like M107 Barret anti-material rifle, which can damage vehciles too. And ignore obstacles, that seems too much by me. For the limitations of Sniper mode (not swim and plant C4), that is really good idea, I agree with it. And also on that they can garrison structures and fire from there. But maybe we can restrict it that from structures he can fire only with his sniper rifle, whenever he entered it with P90 or not. Hazza-the-Fox 14:11, November 5, 2011 (UTC): Agreed. VolteMetalic 19:24, November 5, 2011 (UTC): So Jager is settled too? :) Hazza-the-Fox 04:03, November 7, 2011 (UTC)Yep! Looks like we'll need to upload the next batch! (By the way- is there any way to 'compact' these discussions? I think once they're concluded we should be able to shrink them into a tab, as the page is becoming pretty large!) VolteMetalic 08:24, November 7, 2011 (UTC): I will look into it ;) Centurion Trooper *Full Desigantion: Centurion-class Adanced Armor Heavy Weapons trooper *Role: Support fire *Cost: 800 *Strong against: Most infantry, light vehicles *Weak against: Heavy armor, fast units *Secondary Ability: Deploys primary weapon/undeploy back to sidearm *Heroic Upgrade: Unknown *Primary Weaponry: HK GMG-## grenade machine gun *Secondary Weaponry: sidearm (unknown) Hazza-the-Fox 23:41, November 1, 2011 (UTC)The Centurion is basically a high-tech soldier outfitted with a battlesuit that is an exoskeleton-powered Canadian Trojan Battle Suit, who carries a heavy support fire weapon. In some sense, he is a heavier replacement for the typical Red Alert 2 GI, and the machinegun commando units in most CNC games. His gun does fair damage each hit, and has a high rate of fire- making him perfect for suppressive fire to provide support and cover the normally slow-reloading units the Allies possess. As a heavy infantry unit, he cannot be crushed, and cannot be harmed by small-arms fire (pistols and probably dogs). Obviously he also takes a lot of damage. Overall he's an armoured, beefed-up GI. He carries a smaller weapon while moving around, and must deploy a stationary gun on a bipod (or alternatively, like the Jager, he could walk around with his gun deployed, but very slowly)? When in transit, he can actually move quite fast for an infantry unit- thanks to his exo-suit. Note that the armour he wears is nowhere near as strong as the Tesla Trooper's suit- making the Centurion dependent on his superior range. The primary weapon I'm leaning towards an auto-grenade launcher (doesn't massacre groups- simply a heavier machinegun that does splash damage- and it explains that such a weapon is only so effective- rather than conspicuously missing entirely from the battle). Not sure if it should be able to attack air or not while deployed. The other gun would obviously be a pistol of some kind- only much shorter-ranged and overall less powerful than the main weapon. Note that overall, both of these weapons are excellent against medium-armored vehicles, fairly good against most infantry, and still do a reasonable amount of damage to heavy units- although these would be more dangerous against the Centurion. Also, the projectiles should travel slowly, giving units like Terror Drones and Flamebots an advantage. VolteMetalic 00:20, November 2, 2011 (UTC): Yes, I see, something like GDI's Zone Troopers. I like that idea :) For the weaponry, as seidearm give him an SMG which he can carry in one arm and fire with it, or maybe needs both. You can little make it around Warhammer 40,000's Space marines. They are pretty much what you mean, thoguht Space mariens are more of direct assault shock troopers. The SMG might represent a bolter, but Centurion will have it only good against infantry, and maybe light vehicles. For the main weapon, I agree on that being it a stationary weapon, on tripod perhaps. And when you cant decide from two options, make it by the golden middle route, take both :D Make the weapon a heavy machine gun, and place under it a grenade launcher, that will give these guys a great appearance of "protectors of peace". I am not sure if the grenade launcher should have a "magazine" too, but I guess yes, for 6 grenades maybe? This will make them really badass! Hazza-the-Fox 03:26, November 2, 2011 (UTC) That's the beauty of this unit as being a tougher and more-combat geared support-weapon specialist than the Guardian (or in some cases, the Jager), the weapons can be more interesting; Of course, I realized an interesting possible implication; if the deployable tripod gun did indeed fire projectiles at a slightly slower pace that possibly miss faster units (like attack dogs)- it creates a potential handiness of having a side-arm that is a plain gun; you could have one provide general suppressive fire with the main gun, while a second holding a shorter-ranged firearm could hit the fast unit accurately and cover the heavy gunner? For that secondary gun, I definitely agree that something compact-ish but seriously brawny like the Space Marine bolter is probably a good choice (in fact, it could arguably be a full-auto weapon too- just with less damage and range, harms infantry and robot targets, but more accuracy at short range)- while the bigger gun is some long-ranged harder-hitting weapon with a slower rate of fire (still quite fast), slower velocity (like a missile's speed). And either way, I definitely think grenades (or explosive tipped rounds) would definitely make a good theme; being weapons that armies DO use- but are rather expensive to make and re-arm. Of course, if you are implying he carries some kind of mortar-style riot-grenade launcher, that also would be a potentially interesting route. VolteMetalic 08:05, November 2, 2011 (UTC): Yes. A small SMG for short ranges with good accuracy, and heavy machine gun + grenade launcher on large ranges but not as acccurate. As for that instance that Some Centurions may cover their comrades with their SMGs against fast-moving infantry, I think that people will more go to use a different unit, like Marine or Jager. Hazza-the-Fox 10:38, November 3, 2011 (UTC) A good point- I thought of another random idea- what if his portable weapon was a medium-range smoke-grenade launcher that just reduced enemy movement speed or fighting capability? (peacekeeper grenade launchers are actually quite compact). That might be a twist on the side-arm/deployable main weapon dichotomy? On another note, I think explosive bullet-grenade rounds/pop-rockets for the machinegun is definitely a good idea to go with (in essence, it would just be a 2-3 shot per second shot that does a small bit of splash- helps enhance the suppressive fire aspect and also spices up the gun as a more substantial weapon than a normal machinegun- as a few constructive complaints on the DA page pointed out as far as a unique high-tech national unit is concerned. VolteMetalic 11:06, November 3, 2011 (UTC): Yes, a rapid-firing greande launcher with bullet-grenades sounds also great, I am for it for sure! It will be firing 3-shot bursts of grenades with small splash, which can decrease the speed of enemy caught in the splash, as means of the suppressive fire. That can work fine! Hazza-the-Fox 00:11, November 4, 2011 (UTC) Awesome! And the small secondary weapon? Would a smoke-grenade canister-shooting riot-gun be feasible or a good side-arm? To clarify, I was thinking both guns would be grenades- only the machinegun shoots bullet-grenades (like an M203 launcher) while the smaller gun lobs cannisters up and over like a teargas launcher? 10:31, November 4, 2011 (UTC): I thinkt htat as sidearm he might have something like Heckler & Koch MP5, or something in this sense, to more give them a look of "Allied Space Marines". :) But how to name the deployable weapon? Autocannon? Heavy Grenade Launcher? Rapid-Fire Cannon? Hazza-the-Fox 14:16, November 5, 2011 (UTC) No problem with the sidearm; As for the grenade launcher, that's not too hard; there are plenty of existing models of deployable auto-grenade launchers; the '''XM307 Advanced Crew Served Weapon (ACSW) '''is a big on e that comes to mind. VolteMetalic 19:24, November 5, 2011 (UTC): Yeah, that might work, but make it more like a normal machine gun, or mix of machine gun, grenade aluncher, WH40K heavy bolter and cannon :) And the sidearm, might t be MP5, or like an improved version MP6? :) Hazza-the-Fox 04:02, November 7, 2011 (UTC)That's pretty much what an auto-grenade launcher is- a machine-grenade-launcher- but I'm easy. Maybe those guns too- I was just thinking that the teargas/smokescreen launcher would differentiate his attack from strictly being a lighter, portable gun vs the heavy deployed gun. Of course, we can try them both out (or have the smoke-grenade launcher as an upgrade)? VolteMetalic 08:19, November 8, 2011 (UTC): Ahh, yes, Machine Grenade launcher sounds the best :D You mean, that sidearm will have added mini-grenade launcher with the smoke grenade or teargas as heroic? That is crazy, but great! :D VolteMetalic 19:15, November 8, 2011 (UTC): So, may I add the sidearm as "MP-6 submachine gun"? And for the main gun, I added it as KH GMG- (also German, but it mgith be changed into any other nationality). The ## are supposed to represent a year when it was first produced (like 46 mean 1946) Mirage Commando (M-COM) *Full Desigantion: Mirage Commando *Role: Stealth ambush/infiltration heavy infantry *Cost: 1200 *Strong against: All ground targets at short range *Weak against: Aircraft and long-range units *Secondary Ability: Stealth Suit - Active when commando is still, makes M-COM disguised as environment *Heroic Upgrade: Sonic amplifier - Sonic blasts travel further *Primary Weaponry: Portable short-ranged Sonic cannon *Secondary Weaponry: C4 charges Hazza-the-Fox 07:55, November 1, 2011 (UTC) Ok, so the Mirage Commando is basically a cross between the Red Alert 2 Mirage Tank, the Emperor Fedaikin, and the Commando-type units from Red Alert 2. He's a heavy unit with some fair hitpoints and cannot be run over, can move quickly- but can't swim. He is also an operative/commando unit, who benefits from radar-stealth and the Infiltration Training upgrade. He uses the exact same kind of disguise method as the Mirage Tank- looking like a tree (or possibly other inconspicuous environmental features), so long as he is standing still- except for a brief flash when he fires his gun. (ideally the mechanic in Emperor where stealth units can retain their disguise if they move a very short distance at a time would apply- but I don't think that will be possible). His main weapon is a short-ranged miniature sonic weapon, firing a slow-moving projectile that can bowl over multiple units, if they happen to be very close. Although far weaker than the Sonic Tank's weapon, this attack is strong enough to kill any infantry unit, and do severe damage to vehicles (far more than a Tesla Trooper's gun per-hit). The drawback is this weapon has a slow rate of fire, making the M-COM highly dependent on his stealth suit to stay alive. He can also plant C4 on structures (and possibly tanks if they cross directly past him or are targeted? If the second holds true, planting an explosive on a passing vehicle would not reveal his position- logically). The only thing remaining is appearance- holographic projectors on his body (like what the Mirage Tank had attached), a ghillie-suit covered in leaves? A combination of both? VolteMetalic 11:37, November 1, 2011 (UTC): For the invisibility, when he makes a move, he will be visible again. It is more logical. FOr the appearance, I think that he needs to look high-tech, so I think the holoprojection panels would be enough. On his shoulders (arm, between shoulder and elbow), on his stomach, and on his backpack (I presume he has it). Than the clothes, something like a modern outfit of soldiers, but with mroe of the high-tech features. Hazza-the-Fox 23:12, November 1, 2011 (UTC)I was thinking something like that. (I previously tried incorporating Ghillie-suit leaves and foliage underneath his panels- doesn't work, looks strange- so it's pure technology now). So at the moment he does indeed have a (huge) backpack, with extremely bulky holo-panels on his shoulders and back as well as along the top of his head, with smaller ones on his chest, thighs etc. It gives an appearance that he's a heavier infantry unit too (which he definitely is). I think logically, most of what he's carrying are battery-rechargers for his holoprojectors and gun (each have their own large batteries inside too). VolteMetalic 00:11, November 2, 2011 (UTC): Yes, definitly something like heavy high-tech guy with the cutting-edge technology. Hazza-the-Fox 03:14, November 2, 2011 (UTC) Excellent- then it's solved! Vehicles FlameBot *Full Desigantion: Flamethrower-assisted Battlefield Reconaissance Robot (FBRR) *Role: Recon, anti-infantry/anti-fortification assault unit *Cost: 800 *Strong against: Infantry, structures *Weak against: Vehicles, terror drones, aircraft, heavy infantry partially resistant to flame. *Abilities: Clear garrison (flamethrower stream) *Secondary Ability: Drake Rotation - rapidly rotating turret, creating a firestorm around itself *Heroic Upgrade: Napalm-themite mixture - damage boost of the flamethrower *Primary Weaponry: Flamethrower *Secondary Weaponry: N/A Hazza-the-Fox 23:56, November 1, 2011 (UTC) The Flamebot is the natural result of the application of a volatile weapon to an expendable scouting bot. Although the Allies had long since abandoned flamethrowers for ethical reasons (mainly soldier safety), desperate times and new technology has made it possible again. Rather than have a soldier risk hauling a napalm tank close to an enemy entrenchment, Allied designers have outfitted it to a speedy robot-controlled miniature scout buggy- capable of carrying its payload at high speeds towards its target- using its speed, light-weight (only 500kg) and small profile to avoid being hit by enemy fire. Once in range it hoses down enemy soldiers, clears out garrisoned buildings and incinerates enemy structures. When hit, it explodes and ignites the surrounding ground (and units) unfortunate enough to be nearby. As a robot, it is immune to mind control and radiation. It cannot be harmed by dogs. It can however be immediately ripped apart by terror drones. Engineers are consdering further enhancements- hover packs, mineclearers (unlikely), or newly programmed attack moves. It is possible for remote robot operators to gain experience and reprogram their robots on the field- although this may also be unlikely. VolteMetalic 00:24, November 2, 2011 (UTC): The weight seems too much, but that depends on how large it actually is. For the secondary, maybe some kind of area-of-effect strike? Maybe rotating the turret swiftly while streaming napalm, making an inferno around itself? For Heroic, I guess a stronger napalm substance, or maybe thermite, along with a modifications for the FlameBot itself to resist the increased temperature of burning thermite. Hazza-the-Fox 03:32, November 2, 2011 (UTC) Probably right about the weight- the robot is intended to be about half the size of an actual dune buggy, or about two meters long- and carrying a separate flamethrower fuel tank about 40-55% larger than what a soldier would be carrying. I was thinking close to the same thing about the attack- probably some kind of 'garden hose' sweeping attack side-to-side at a 90-140 degree angle? Stronger napalm substitute is probably a good idea- perhaps something that can harm vehicles, or spread outwards from a target? VolteMetalic 08:05, November 2, 2011 (UTC): Than make it around 250-300kg. Thats quite reasonable :) I am not sure if this would be possible to code (but I guess yes). But a full 360°, when the whole "head" with streamer rapidly rotates, tahts really funny thing to watch :D Do you know what thermite can do? :P It can melt down a steel pretty quickly, only titan can resist it (for some time), because it can make a temperatures 2,500 °C. But, it burns really quickly, so maybe there might be a mix with the napalm to be able to use the flamethrower for longer. Hazza-the-Fox 13:51, November 2, 2011 (UTC) That would be more reasonable. A spinning head would look pretty funny too (and provide a disadvantage to death-balling- but see what we can do (mimicking the dragon's garden-hose attack reminiscent of a trench-sweep would be pretty cool too- but whichever is possible). And I did not know that- that is extremely frightening! VolteMetalic 18:56, November 2, 2011 (UTC): What do you mean by "garden-hose attack"? Yes, thermite is really nasty :D And in combination with ice... O_o :-O Here is a link for the episode of Mythbusters where they were testing this combination, because they cant believed it was truth. Hazza-the-Fox 10:27, November 3, 2011 (UTC)Ah yes, forgot to describe it better; Lots of people water plants with the garden hose by sweeping the spray side-to-side, in the case of a flamethrower, creating a 180 degree "fire wall" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXxyIVti6UI (skip to 4.40)- although that is a LOT larger than what I had in mind for this little robot. And that IS nasty! Scary stuff- was worried about those guys having stains of that red powder all over their hands and clothes- if any of that caught on fire when they lit the fuse they'd be in trouble! VolteMetalic 11:06, November 3, 2011 (UTC): It will be just stronger than normal Flamebot's flamethrower, and lore-wise that in the napalm there is also thermite. :) Yes, they will be, but they are pros, they already worked with thermite so they know the risks, but it was really bad when that "igniter" extinguished during the first test of the thermite+ice. It wasnt there, but Mythbusters were even trying what happens when you will have a whole bath of thermite, and under it a lot of ice blocks (I guess its weight might have been around 300kg). THAT, was an EXPLOSION!!! XDDD Hazza-the-Fox 00:12, November 4, 2011 (UTC) AGREED- on both points! 10:31, November 4, 2011 (UTC): I added the name for the Secodnary as "Drake Rotation", is it fine? And the heroic, napalm-thermite mixture. After the clarification of the name, FlameBot is all set! :D Hazza-the-Fox 14:16, November 5, 2011 (UTC) Sounds good! Kodiak Tank *Full Desigantion: MBT-7 Kodiak Light Main Battle Tank/Tank Destroyer *Role: Main battle tank *Cost: 1400 *Strong against: Vehicles, structures *Weak against: Anti-armor weapons, aircraft *Secondary Ability: Unknown *Heroic Upgrade: Roof-Mounted Machine Gun - Places a .50 caliber machine gun on the roof, aganist infantry and aerial argets *Primary Weaponry: 125mm rifled gun *Secondary Weaponry: .50 caliber coaxial machine gun Hazza-the-Fox 12:02, November 7, 2011 (UTC) Now for something a little more complex; The Kodiak Tank is basically an overhaul of the Grizzly- this time with good armor, and a deadly gun firing advanced high-penatrating shells that can make short work of most surfaces, and also boasts a machinegun that although has difficulty aiming at entrenched infantry- still does more damage than the Grizzly's old main gun could. Like most tank units in this mod, its cost is roughly doubled what its predecessor costed, both to compensate and also to discourage spamming of tanks as a first-resort; Against a Rhino Tank, the Soviet counterpart would stand no chance- unfortunately it is up against the new Mauler. While the new gun does indeed do far more damage per shot than the Mauler's guns, the Kodiak lacks the fast reloader of the new Soviet Tank, meaning that it cannot reload anywhere near as fast; ultimately a Kodiak would inflict severe damage, but likely the constant hits from its enemy will eat away its lighter armor package faster than the Kodiak's heavier gun can destroy the Mauler's heavier armor (this a friend and I actually did based on tests with a Rhino with a 35% increase in fire rate, and a Grizzly with a near tank-destroyer gun in RA2)! With fast speed, hard hitting but a light armor package and slow fire rate, the Kodiak is ideal for hit-and-runs, or providing heavy support fire for infantry. No idea what it's special ability should be... (although I'd say ideally something real-world based- like smokescreens, flares to extend range, chaff-countermeasures, or something is probably along the lines of things that would fit nicely) VolteMetalic 13:00, November 7, 2011 (UTC): Yes, I agree. Basically, Kodiak is faster and stronger, but Mauler is tougher and has greater fire rate, yes? For this, I want to ask, Grizzly is really Kodiak's predecessor lore-wise? Or you refer it as RA2 Grizzly? For secondary, what about switching of the ammunition? The default will be normal HEAT shells, and second might be a missiles (yes, missiles). US developed M551 Sheridan, which was able to fire large 155mm missiles, so Kodiak might bear this from it. The missile can reach greater distances, maybe even homing the target, but it can has longer reloading while greater splash damage or is weaker but reloads faster. I am more for the greater firepower over weak rapid firing. As a sort of to balance Kodiak-Mauler encounters, giving Kodiak greater chance of destroying Mauler (thought it is useless :P and Mauler will always win) And, the name. I think it might be a multi-national product, so it might be designated as "MBT-#" unlike the American M3 (also, it is M3A5, not M3A-5 :P). In RA3 Allied Guardian Tank is designeted as MBT-8, so this might be it too, or has a smaller number like 6. Grizzly might be 5, and a RA1 medium tank might be 4 :) Hazza-the-Fox 20:52, November 7, 2011 (UTC)Exactly! The Kodiak is faster and harder-hitting, but has less armor and a slower reload than the Mauler, making its 'weakness' solely an accumulative damage/armor ratio only. Hmmm- not sure; technically it is an alternate universe that split off from when Einstein erased Hitler (only erasing Stalin too). So a 'Grizzly' in question would be a bizarro-universe coincidence to the normal Red Alert 2 universe, if it exists (that people in both universes developed something similar)?. Otherwise, I mean the Grizzly from Red Alert 2. A heavy shot does come to mind- though I'm hesitant to give the direct combat units an even bigger boost directly to firepower; I was thinking a temporary range increase, so it can get a few extra shots in before the Maulers close the gap- but at the same time, that too might be disadvantageous as the Kodiak is much faster and could stay out of range too easily. And I agree that the Kodiak needs a multinational label (I tried to mix the German prefixes to American and got the one you see above- but MBT-7 sounds better). VolteMetalic 21:58, November 7, 2011 (UTC): RA3 Guardia has "Spectrum Designator". It deactivated the main gun, but gave it an option to "paint" enemy targets for other ally units, which gained a damage bonus. And now when I think of it, RA3 Paradox made one duo of tanks which had secondaries which supported the other. Confederate Beagle Light Tank (RA1 light tank) and Mastiff Heavy Tank (RA1 medium tank). Beagle gives Mastiff a speed bonus, making them faster and so can keep up with Beagles, both both tanks are unable to fire. Mastiff can increase a damage and rate of fire of nearby Beagles. Just a thing to consider. So, we need something which will dont make Kodiak a superiro to Mauler. Autoloader and better targeting is off limits. Greater damage, unlikely. Smokecreen, Mauler already has it... Now I have idea! What about camouflage!? Kodiak will be able to make himself invisible (for naked eye, dogs and sensory units will be able to detect them), waiting for Maulers to get close and than strike! :D Kodiak will be unable to fire, and when you will want to cancel it, you will simply give it command to attack or move. The ability will be just one-way, you will activate it and it will cooldown till its again ready to use, even if you didnt moved with Kodiak. Hazza-the-Fox 01:29, November 8, 2011 (UTC) Not necessarily off limits- as they are pretty good options and the Kodiak beating the Mauler isn't actually a bad thing either; I'm mainly opting for giving the meaner combat units a more abstract buff than a direct damage enhancement, to help it in another area (kinda like how the Mauler has a smokescreen rather than a second attack). I think if the Kodiak tank had some flare launchers that it shot out at a long distance (maybe targeted just outside its own fire range) it would reveal the area, and also enable it to shoot at anything both within its own sight range and the flare's sight range; but the tank must be stationary until the flare (both its own and friendly flares) hits the ground and fizzes out. The result is a temporary range enhancement in a specific area to get a few shots in, without proving too evasive or high-powered (plus it requires a bit of micro to pull off)... (a stealth device might steal the mirage commando's thunder!) VolteMetalic 08:19, November 8, 2011 (UTC): It wont :) M-COM is still stronger than Kodiak, and Kodiak's hiding ability is based on the fact it is partially a tank destroyer, which were sometimes hiding and waiting for enemy to show its back. The flare... hmm... no ideas. As I gave that example of Paradox's Mastiff and Beagle tanks, maybe Kodiak and Mars might be directly supporting each other. Hazza-the-Fox 12:35, November 8, 2011 (UTC)Now that you mention the MARS it does create an interesting teamwork alternative, that the MARS could launch a flare instead, that the Kodiaks could take advantage of- good thinking! Makes it tougher to single out the best ability for it then.... VolteMetalic 19:15, November 8, 2011 (UTC): Ok... now I need to know these things: *How fast Mars is compared to Kodiak. *How accurate Mars is. For the flare, Mars will launch the flare into the area, in which Kodiaks will have option to attack enemy targets from greater distance (double of theirs?) Now we need to sort out how Kodiak can affect Mars. These two points will help with it. Hazza-the-Fox 01:04, November 9, 2011 (UTC) Now we're talking! The answers are: *Far slower *Horrible Accuracy (though this is a good thing for the allies- as it does massive area-effect damage, giving allies a nice broad-hitting unit to differentiate from its precision attackers) That does open up some options though.... Aircraft Ships Sonic Dolphin *Full Desigantion: Sonic-Assisted Attack Dolphin *Role: Naval stealth skirmish *Cost: 600 *Strong against: Anything in the water, Giant Squid (in large number) *Weak against: Anti-sub weapons, Giant Squid *Secondary Ability: Unknown- possible second application of echolocation device *Heroic Upgrade: Unknown *Primary Weaponry: Sonic amplifier grafted to melon *Secondary Weaponry: N/A Hazza-the-Fox 12:32, November 8, 2011 (UTC) Genetically-modified and grown to a huge size, with enhanced melon-glands capable of more potent echolocation and sonic emissions. These dolphins are then outfitted with Sonic-amplifiers (with in-build batteries), and trained to attack ships and submersibles- firing short-range sonic blasts at it repeatedly until it breaks open. The first thing to point out with these dolphins is that they do NOT attack from a stationary position like other naval units- but instead move around, strafing the targets while firing in much the same way a fighter jet does while dogfighting. This allows the dolphin to avoid much enemy fire, (taking minor damage). Its only major threat is the Soviet Giant Squid, which can swallow it whole. However, the dolphin is also highly equipped to deal with squids; their sonic gun forces them to release any friendly ship they are holding, without harming the ship itself. And their evasive attack method helps keep the squid confused and going far out of its way to chase down the dolphins. Dolphins can also form superior numbers to destroy a squid without too much trouble. As for secondary ability- I think a simple solution might be an eccolocation function- sending out a sonar pulse that can pick up the position of unknown objects in the water from outside their sight range- allowing the dolphins to know in advance if there are many enemies nearby- without the enemies knowing they have been spotted. VolteMetalic 19:15, November 8, 2011 (UTC): Yeah, I agree on him. But for the Secondary I suggest to give it an option which large whales (sperm whale) are capble of, and that is ultrasonic strike. I seen it in one document in theoretical duel between sperm whale and squid. Whale striked the squid with this ultrasonic (or subsonic) attack, which stunned the squid, and whale than bite it, killing it. As dolphin is enlarged and posses the sonic amplifier, it might be able to paralyze the target, even ships (as steel conducts sound 8 times better than air, while water only 4 times). Question is if it will paralyze all units nearby it, or only one particular. It might be a good option to hunt down Squids. One will paralyze it and the rest will take it out with ease. The paralyzis might work only for few seconds, but still it might make dolphins very dangerous. But probably will require to make them more expensive. Also, ont he bottom of the page there is an issue we might discuss as well :) Hazza-the-Fox 00:59, November 9, 2011 (UTC)Technically speaking, the sonic concussion is actually the dolphin's NORMAL attack! (the sonic blast does huge damage, and the concussion in question forces the squid to release its victim). Beyond that I think its ability needs to be something without extra potency, to ensure people aren't going to be too discouraged using squid against Allied players, I think it's a nice balance that the Squid is this time much stronger, and the dolphins strength is in their greater numbers and lower cost putting the odds against the squids. Alternatively, the echo-location might help set up ambushes- especially if the enemy were trying to use stealth naval units like subs... Drone Carrier *Full Desigantion: Aircraft Carrier/ Robotic Drone manufacturing and Control Facility *Role: Support and long-range Bombardment *Cost: 2000 *Strong against: Ships, structures *Weak against: Submerged ships, aircraft *Secondary Ability: Support/scout Drone *Heroic Upgrade: Unknown- possibly AA systems installed in the drones. *Primary Weaponry: Drone Aircraft *Secondary Weaponry: N/A Hazza-the-Fox 01:28, November 9, 2011 (UTC) The Drone Carrier; builds drones and stores them inside itself, and sends them out to attack. If a drone is destroyed, the Carrier will always automatically start making a new one for free. Unlike old aircraft carriers that used human pilots, who would gain experience but quickly be killed in combat- the drones are controlled by remote pilots on-board the carrier itself, and all experience gained on the battlefield goes towards them. In other words, kills made by the drones will be credited to the Carrier itself, and will be able to gain promotions this way. The drones themselves are like Raptors or MiGs- only far weaker and clumsier. They hold multiple small bombs each, and will strafe around their targets, dropping them on weak points (an expendable drone can afford to hand around to look for weak spots), before returning to the ship to be re-armed, and automatically sent out to battle. Drones cannot be directly controlled by the player- but are instead coordinated via the ship itself. A special function- I think we decided on one we liked- like sending out a scout drone that circles the ship a few times and reveals the area- or perhaps actually flies to a targeted location? Either way, a second kind of drone that helps out is an obvious choice. Structures Defenses Upgrades Discussions Gameplay Hazza-the-Fox 08:25, August 24, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox okay, the Allied Side. The Allied Side focuses on more specialized units trying to compliment each other's firepower to delivery a concentrated line of attack. Many of thier units are slightly faster but lighter than Soviet counterparts, and many deliver more damage in a shot- but may take less damage and/or have a slower rate of fire. Thus, the Allies are more geared to hit-and-run than the Soviets are, and need more sophisticated combos with additional allied units to substantiate an attack force. Technologically, the Allies use Prism Technology, Sonic Technology, advanced missile technology, and Chrono Technology. Disturbingly, there has been a trend in more unethical units- either the result of commanders becoming more desperate to win the war, insidious backers pushing the bounderies, or both. Infantry- basic infantry are generally stronger, more specialized and better protected than Soviet alternatives, but cannot reach the same level of power as the likes of the Tesla Troopers or Desolators. Overall, their soldiers are more equal in abilities- but simply perform vastly different functions. Vehicles- lighter forms of armour and engines combining the best thinkers of their combined nations, allow most Allied vehicles to travel faster and more swiftly than their Soviet counterparts- but take less damage- note that the technology is much closer than in other conflicts, so the difference in speed and armor are not as distinct. The munitions loaded onto vehicles often do considerably more damage- but lacking the advanced articulated robotics the Soviets seem to be installing in their loading systems, rate of fire is often much poorer. Aircraft- fast, light, and armed with long-range, accurate and hard-hitting weaponry, intended for refined, precise attacks on specific targets. Note that Allied jets are easier and cheaper to access- their fighter bays (housing 4 jets) come attached to their Radar structures- whilst Soviet fighter bays (only 2-3 jets) come with their Hangar structure (immediately available after the Radar is installed). The downside is, their hit-and-run heavy aircraft (Nightwing and Hurricane) each require their own specialized runway; And thus prompts the construction of their own Hangar-equivalent to accoomodate large aircraft (they are also where Helicopters are built). The Allied Navy is more distinct; unlike the generalized, versatile all-purpose ships possessed by the Soviets, the Allied navy is composed of ships that specialize in only a particular form of attack each, but do so at far greater levels. The all-purpose Soviet Destroyer (the Sea Reaper) has only 2 AA guns, a single depth-charge mortar, and a single naval gun; the Allied Battlecruiser has only two very powerful naval guns, and generally are more powerful. Structures I will get to later too. Hazza-the-Fox 09:54, August 24, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Hmmm, seems my name's not coming up on these posts Non-buildable Units VolteMetalic 22:14, November 7, 2011 (UTC): Now I remembered that there we dont has a list of units which are ingame but are not buildable (like in RA2 Boris' MiG Bombers or cargo planes) Ok, so we will need a default cargo plane for both sides, probably a heavy bombers (something like B-52 and Tu-95 Bear), what else? Oh, yes, Allied drones of Aircraft Carrier. Hazza-the-Fox 01:00, November 9, 2011 (UTC) YES! A very good point! Of course, the B-52 and Tu-95 Bear sound like good cargo planes/paradrop/bomber planes; I'm not quite sure what other non-buildables there are, but I imagine we might have quite a few to consider. Something we must discuss further....